RUMBIDZAI ‘INDIGO’S WITNESS’ CHIKUNI
This writer had the wonderful experience of talking to rapper, lyrical architect and all round cool guy Indigo Saint; following the official and hopefully permanent release of his fifth studio album, Love Over Fear.
Love Over Fear comes out five years after its conception and has the artist at his most vulnerable on the topics of addiction and growth in all their vertiginous glory. He is an older brother and your younger brother's role model delivering a step by step guide to Love's triumph in his trademark intricate rhyme structures.
Indigo Saint talks about how easily love and addiction can be conflated; the lines blurring further at the agony of separation. He shares his perspective as a grudging smoker and admits to being just a man in matters of the heart; just a mere mortal. This could be due to either the lack of positive male role models or any of the myriad of fears that propel and hold us back in turn. Fear of loneliness, growing up, and the kind of darkness only the word of God can light through.
All eight songs are produced by Portland who excels at emoting the moods within the music. The bass on Heal is salt on the wound inflicted by the line "but she's too old if she's twenty three" and the opening sequence on I Don't Want to Smoke produces a head rush similar to a good drag of some smokes. On 3AM, Indigo, being the social documentarian he is, muses on alternative ways to approach child rearing and human growth in favour of a more thoughtfully reflective and autonomous approach.
Fatherhood is a recurring theme in the 33-year-old's music; most recently on a beacon of storytelling with the adroit Chioniso Tsikisayi. When we discuss the topic his excitement is so palpable as to be positively fecund. In the eons between the completion of the interview with Indigo and its publication -- sorry Hillary (the editor of this publication) -- esteemed artist and husband to an absolute baddie Tehn Diamond returned to the public eye via his profound poetry, sharing lessons and anecdotes from fatherhood. It is wonderful to have him back, even if it makes some jokes obsolete; and sets a heartwarming precedent that hopefully other artists take on in their own variations. (The Tehn connection will make sense as you read through the conversation with Indigo.)
Love Over Fear is set to precede albums six and seven which will cast Indigo Saint in new personas and roles. We discuss the culmination of lessons from his previous work, his state of mind as he enters this new chapter, and he confirms the baddie rumors. You will have to forgive the rose tint on everything, this writer was starstruck. Who wouldn’t be?
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R: Thank you for agreeing to talk to me and congratulations on your release. How are you? How are you feeling?
I: The pleasure is all mine and thank you. I should feel more excited but releasing a body of work isn't as much of a canon event as it used to be. It feels more like a reflection. But overall, I’m at peace.
R: Reflection makes sense though since you have had Love Over Fear around for a while. Why now? And was it intentional that it's a full moon?
I: I think my subconscious was intentional about it. It's nice to allow the subconscious to move on auto pilot from time to time. Memento vivere. That’s why. I forgot I was mortal. At some point this will end so whilst I still can dance under the sun, I’m twerking.
R: It must be nice being a wizard. What made you remember your mortality? How does the man you were when you wrote the album compare to the man you are now?
I: Oh it’s fantastic. I highly recommend sprinkling a little magic into your life from time to time. I can’t remember at which point it happened exactly, but there’s been moments I’ve lived that I’ve wished wouldn’t end. First times in front of new audiences, first time hearing new music, first kisses, you know? Like I’ll never taste this person’s spit for the first time again. I think in 2021 when I wrote this I was still becoming. I was also ridiculously depressed as a result of my own choosing and doing. I took life a little too seriously and maybe rightfully so because of the pandemic but, it’s never ever truly that deep. I’m a lot light-hearted now and I smile a lot more. Probably because I don’t look to do what’s right, just to do what brings me joy. Everything else is on the other side and a consequence of.
R: Villain era, basically. For context, when did you write the album in relation to your other work? And are you more comfortable with your mortality now? How do you currently feel about smoking?
I: Basically lol! I wrote this album just before Chapter 29 Verse 11 and a year before Block 34. I still hate the fact that I will die. There has to be a hack or patch or a cheat code or something. I kinda like this earth place. If I do come back I’d like to come back as a TikTok baddie. Full frontal and long nails. And a set of really questionable morals. Seems fun. It would inspire a lot of hate tweets from Shadaya. But, if you say you love me then put me in Chanel. Also, I don’t wanna smoke anymore but I enjoy it. It gives me my deepest musings. I’ll quit when I become a dad. But it’s a gross habit, I wouldn’t recommend.
R: What size are you? You seem genuinely excited about being a father, why and how are you hoping to balance that with being an artist? What would you say were the best and worst parts of bringing Love over Fear to life?
I: 32 waist, 36 hips. I’m a baddie. I think being a dad is a natural progression for my artistry. I share so much with everyone else, about life from my own lens, but when I think of the responsibility that will have to come with my messaging then, it’s a little deeper. How would I want him to carry himself, to fight, to love, to feel? I wouldn’t want to be overbearing of course but I’d have to be somewhat different. I don’t think there’d be a balance at all. My kid will be my best release.
Listening back to Love Over Fear was tough. I felt sorry for that version of me. If I could time travel back and speak to me again, if I could Interstella, I’d tell me that it’s actually going to be ok. I think listening back to me being that vulnerable was for sure the toughest bit. The best bit was seeing how it felt for other people years after I’d written it. It made it that much more worth it. I’m just a vessel. The message is through my context but I have no proprietary over it.
R: The Onlyfans would be so tea. You make it all sound so beautiful, I cannot wait to experience Indigo Saint through the lens of fatherhood. The album is very vulnerable, you did a wonderful job of pulling back the veneer to expose universal fears and anxieties. I feel sorry for myself listening now. The cover is interesting, very stark and straightforward. What made you choose that one as the representation of the work? And do the initial cover and lyric videos still exist? What made you change the imagery and concept this time around?
I: Please follow me on my finsta for my Onlyfans link. I can’t remember why I chose that art as the cover art. I think it was probably because of the black sheep. There’s a deeper meaning to it I’m sure, I just didn’t journal it at the time of conception. I should do that. And the initial cover still exists in my archives as does the video. There are days where I just create for the purpose of creating. I think that first cover art was as a result of creative spontaneous combustion. Now that I think of it, I should have asked Chevvs to make the cover art for this one.
R: I love your finsta, you're very funny. The line up of the songs is intentional, yes? You can see the love winning in real time. Could you please walk me through what you were trying to achieve with that? How did you find Grooblen and what was it like working with them? You always have really cool collaborators from a very wide pool of genres and yet you maintain your authenticity throughout. Where does the chemistry come from and how do you keep from being swept up in other artists' energy?
I: My final performance is going to be a comedy special. I’ll probably have lesser known comedians open for me. You know, the Kandoros and such. In all seriousness though, I love comedy. I think you have to be really intelligent to be intentionally funny. As with comedy, I think of my album sequencing in the same manner. An introduction, a setup, a punchline. The really good ones are where the punchline is the setup for an even bigger punchline. 3 am was a continuation of my time series I started on Portland 51. I did 2 am on that project.
On the other songs I tried to personify the cigarette and draw comparisons to addiction and love. Sonically it had to have motion and continuation but also the messaging had to eventually find some sort of resolution. A conclusion of sorts. Ellie was absolutely incredible with her performance on Sacrivices. Her and I had connected on previous work, a concert that was in San Francisco that I performed virtually in. She’s great! Sometimes I get consumed by the energy other artists bring. I’ve worked with some really incredibly talented people. Obviously I have faves. I can’t work with someone if I’m not already a fan of their work. It keeps my energy and intentions towards creating, genuine and pure.
R: Are you planning on disappearing from the public scene, a Tehn Diamond perhaps? I think Sacrivices is my favourite so far, the clever title cinched it for me. Do you have a favourite? Why that one? You followed up Love over Fear with some really well executed thematic work with Chapter 29 and Block 34. How influential was the work you did on Love over Fear on these other two? What did you find most challenging/exhilarating about working within the boundaries of a concept?
I: I don’t want to plan my retirement. I had said at 35 I’d transition into a different role in the music industry but I still have a lot more energy than I thought I would at this moment. But it is tempting. Asking which is my favourite song is like asking a parent who their favourite child is. It’s obviously the first born but you know, we don’t want the other kids to feel some type of way. 3AM is special to me because it broke my creative firmament but Love Over Fear was my realization. I think after writing that song I knew I couldn’t put the album out that year. It had to ferment.
Conceptually, The Blunt EPs slaps all of my projects put together and Insecure, the follow up, had some merits. Those were influential to this project and the work that followed after. Working on this gave me the idea of working with one producer at a time. Portland made this project, Area 51 made Block 34, KidCacci made Chapter 29 Verse 11. Tapping in with them made me hone into different writing styles and also made me create alter egos for different sounds.
Making an album is weird work because when you start there are no briefs. Just instrumentals and lingering slur words that want to be expressed. So there are no real boundaries. It's only after having made three or four songs that I then go, “Alright, these guys are getting an album” and then I write in the context of what exists. Filling in gaps, expanding a narrative, embellishing the ego, that type of thing. It’s ridiculously taxing work. Emotionally more than it is financially.
R: You are a spring chicken, rest. What role do you see yourself transitioning into? Which producer/alter ego duo did you enjoy most and that we're likely to see again? You have an extensive catalogue of well executed projects. Where do you draw the fortitude to keep showing up as an artist? How do you know when it's time to let go of a project and what does that look and feel like for you?
I: A rotisserie at the very least. I’ll rest when I’m dead. There’ll be plenty time then. Unless our earlier theory on incarnation proves true then…I’d want to be a music supervisor or any role that’s involved with putting artists' music in film and television. Mostly publishing and distributing rights. Making sure artists eat good! I don’t see myself in management but I know I’d excel at it just off what I’ve done for myself. Project Beyoncé. Block 34 was fun to make. Area has been a part of my life forever.
I rapped on his earlier beats and I knew from then he was going to be an exceptional producer. Block 34 was fun because we mixed and wrote the music together. Lots of studio time, lots of overnight sessions, barrels upon barrels of gin. We’re going to do another one I’m sure. I don’t do sequels but I like the Boujie Pantsula guy. He’s charismatic and surprisingly well spoken.
As for the showing up bit, that’s on God. If He gives me another day I’ll use it to make music. I also try as much as I can to remind myself that this music is an anointing and at all costs I have to protect it. There are people I'm not with anymore because it was this or them. It hurt but, this isn’t just about me. It’s about all the people who find some sort of healing or answer in my words. And also for the people who use my music to make questionable decisions. So… I hope I never have to choose again. Everything I release goes through at least a thousand iterations lol. Verse changes, changes in pitch, mixing a billion times, adjusting reverbs and delays, deleting entire folders of work, starting again. Nothing is ever truly ready. I’d still be tinkering with Block 34 if Area wasn’t with me in the studio. I just care about the music that much.
R: The Boujie Pantsula was such a cool guy, it'd be awesome to experience him again. What do you hope someone listening to Love over Fear - maybe they're becoming too or dealing with their own brand of addiction- sits with once the music fades out? What season are you walking into next spiritually now that you've cleared up some backlog?
I: I hope you let go of the shame attached to whatever you’re battling with. I’m learning to take myself as I am. All of the pretty bits along with all of the nasty, disgusting bits. Self love must also mean loving those too. :) but mostly I hope they think, “damn, Indigo is one of one, how the hell is that boy still single?” I don’t know if this is a season or an era but I’m enjoying every second of it. My friends are all good looking, my family is healthy, I haven’t had a drink in a very long time (which is exciting because my tolerance must be really low now and it’s going to be cheaper for me the next time I go on a bender), and above everything I’m at peace. It’s nice here. If things hadn’t happened the way they did, I wouldn’t be as grateful as I am now to just be.
R: I think that everyday, for what it's worth. It breaks my heart to stop because this has been delightful. Thank you so much for taking your time to talk to me. One final question; when is the rest of your catalogue coming back on streaming platforms?!
I: The pleasure has been all mine. As for my catalogue, you guys are never getting that back. You should have pirated it when you had the chance :)
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You can listen to Love Over Fear by Indigo Saint via this link:
https://open.spotify.com/album/69jWrbcjbURxGNk9ZoPNzV?si=sBZgjcsRQBCkdiIZ9a0jrQ
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